The Para-Real World Fair: The Logistics of the Largest Immersive Digital Arts Market

00:01:45,330LILBagel: Hi, I'm LILBagel from the global team00:01:47,400

00:02:10,169Phio: (in Japanese)00:02:15,959

00:02:27,150LILBagel: I hope you're all excited for the worlds as much as I am.00:02:47,070

00:02:47,070Phio: (in Japanese)00:02:47,550

00:02:47,550LILBagel: Hey, Phio, VCAT four is done, but the booths are still there right? Can we still00:02:51,390 00:02:51,390purchase from the booths?00:02:52,680

00:03:00,450Phio: (in Japanese)00:03:02,910

00:03:04,050LILBagel: Oh nice, so we can still buy the items we missed during the last event.00:03:07,080

00:04:18,360Phio: (in Japanese)00:04:44,640

00:04:53,640LILBagel: Phio, I heard you saying that Virtual Market Five is a more global event than VCAT 400:04:57,570 00:04:57,570right?00:04:57,900

00:04:57,960Phio: Yeah, that's right.00:04:59,160

00:04:59,430LILBagel: Oh, okay, so if you're thinking of exhibiting it would be great if you made your00:05:02,790 00:05:02,790booth friendly for English and Japanese speakers. For example, we hope to see more00:05:07,020 00:05:07,020diagrams to help bridge the language barrier.00:05:09,240

00:05:16,140Phio: (in Japanese)00:05:22,320

00:07:48,330LILBagel: So, um, my name is LILBagel. What I do in the social VR space is, I am, I am many00:07:56,100 00:07:56,100things, but one of the big things I consider myself is a community advocate. Essentially, I00:08:03,660 00:08:04,200do what I think is best to ensure that we apply systems that can provide community00:08:11,580 00:08:11,580sustainability, and then think about the big picture when it comes down to everything that00:08:18,150 00:08:18,180social VR will become as we continue to move forward, and you know, in respect to the00:08:23,970 00:08:23,970cultures that are established here, identifying what makes us unique, and doing our best to00:08:29,640 00:08:29,640making sure that everybody is on the same page when it comes down to looking at what we're00:08:36,450 00:08:36,450accomplishing here. Virtual Market is one of the largest virtual expos to have ever existed. It00:08:42,660 00:08:42,660displays like yeah, know, Virtual Market Five had like a 1000 exhibitors or something. Virtual00:08:50,880 00:08:50,880Market Four had 11,000 exhibitors. So you know, if you ever think, if you've ever been to a00:08:55,590 00:08:55,590convention or an expo and you've seen the artists alleys there, just imagine that just in00:08:58,860 00:08:58,860virtual reality, and that's the entire convention, right? And people are showing off00:09:02,760 00:09:02,760all kinds of things, 3D models and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so it's a lot of fun. It's really00:09:06,750 00:09:06,750cool. You're starting to see people that were community members, they've realized the00:09:12,120 00:09:12,120opportunities and possibilities that they have, they've made the right connections in the social00:09:17,070 00:09:17,070space, and now they're capitalizing on that and creating resources. So essentially what you're,00:09:24,570 00:09:24,570what you're experiencing here is like a homegrown business kind of culture going on00:09:30,810 00:09:30,810where somebody had a fantastic idea, they found the right person, the right connections in VR,00:09:35,550 00:09:36,000they collaborated with one another, and created something new. Virtual Market started like that.00:09:40,710 00:09:41,910Sly Fest started like that, Loner and Shelter, it all started like that. All these businesses00:09:46,800 00:09:46,800that I've been a part of, you know, people they come in here, they start communities and stuff,00:09:51,690 00:09:51,690and they, you know, they have a lot of fun, and then you know, for some reason they get this00:09:57,600 00:09:57,600like urge to give back, you know, 'cause it, because that does this space gives you a lot,00:10:02,400 00:10:02,820you know? So I think they feel like some kind of duty or obligation to give back. And, you know,00:10:07,620 00:10:07,620they look back at their years of experience of what they've accomplished in their lives, and00:10:12,000 00:10:12,300they see where that fits in this new world, because there's people who aren't filling in00:10:16,470 00:10:16,470these niches that in real life are being filled, you know? So here is like an opportunity to fill00:10:24,600 00:10:24,600in a niche that you've almost always dreamed of filling in. And using that skill that you learn00:10:30,240 00:10:30,240in real life, you can apply it here, and push towards being a part of the cutting edge.00:10:35,940

00:10:48,120Cade Diehm: All right, let's go.00:10:49,860

00:10:50,220Computerised Voice: Welcome wall jeans. Ha, ha, ha.00:10:52,410

00:10:57,270Cade Diehm: This is the default cube.00:10:58,770

00:10:59,310LILBagel: This is default cube. Welcome. This is the first one, we're going to be going through00:11:04,260 00:11:04,260several little doorways here. And in the distance, you can see the little teeny tiny cube00:11:09,990 00:11:09,990over there. Yeah, some really cool animations. Really cool intro. Aye. And now all you got to00:11:19,230 00:11:19,230do is take that and you rotate to the certain color, and boom, and now you can choose from00:11:29,010 00:11:29,010whatever booth pops up, so whichever one looks interesting, and you can do that on either side,00:11:34,680 00:11:34,800and so just keep switching sides and find one that you like and then point your controller00:11:38,190 00:11:38,190that can click and make it happen, captain.00:11:40,770 00:11:41,820I think I'd really like to try Moscow Mule Mode design studio.00:11:46,590 00:11:47,280Good choice.00:11:48,480 00:12:06,780And here is a booth, created by one of the community members. So during virtual market00:12:12,990 00:12:12,990five, nobody was charged a fee when exhibiting. It's been a while since I've seen these. But it00:12:18,360 00:12:18,360seems like what this person is selling up here is basic structures. So as you can see here, you00:12:26,010 00:12:26,010have modular assets that you can purchase from this person to create any, a world of your own,00:12:32,730 00:12:32,730or a house of your own. Some like interior stuff, as you can clearly see. And a brief00:12:38,580 00:12:38,580description of what this is. This is an example of a 3d asset that this person is selling. This00:12:43,680 00:12:43,680is an independent artist. This is a studio that's also dedicated on taking commissions, so00:12:48,570 00:12:48,660it's either they're selling the asset itself, modular designs, or they're selling their00:12:53,880 00:12:53,880services: commission them to create your own world to your own specifications.00:12:57,930

00:12:58,290Cade Diehm: I feel like we kind of hit the jackpot with this a little bit, you know?00:13:00,690

00:13:01,470LILBagel: Some of them aren't as refined as others. You got to understand all these were00:13:05,070 00:13:05,070users, all this was users submitted for projects and product. So, this is obviously an00:13:11,700 00:13:11,700independent studio that's doing very well for themselves. Let's see here.00:13:18,900 00:13:24,450See where else looks interesting. Thumbnails are important, see?00:13:29,550 00:13:35,400I don't, but I know this person's stuff.00:13:38,160

00:14:07,470Cade Diehm: So, so, we are, basically what this is, is it's like a creator in this space who00:14:16,110 00:14:16,320makes money and this is like a showcase, of which you can literally buy from these spaces.00:14:21,570

00:14:22,020LILBagel: Yeah.00:14:22,410

00:14:22,770Cade Diehm: ...right?00:14:22,800

00:14:23,790LILBagel: Yep. So it's right here. This is what they're advertising in plain English.00:14:27,420

00:14:28,860Cade Diehm: How many worlds did you say were here just in the Virtual Market Five.00:14:32,850

00:14:32,850LILBagel: Oh, gosh, there was a lot of worlds for Virtual Market Five. Maybe there's eight, so00:14:40,830 00:14:40,830there's eight default cubes.00:14:42,840

00:14:44,610Cade Diehm: This is very easy to get lost in.00:14:46,230

00:14:46,920LILBagel: Yeah, it is.00:14:47,670 00:15:14,160Behind me is VR Con 2020. It's a massive community volunteer project that was done by00:15:21,600 00:15:21,630just some of the most wonderful people I have had the pleasure of working with, spearheaded by00:15:25,920 00:15:25,920Fizzy, who is a Twitch streamer, and we ended up creating and crafting a team of people that we00:15:31,560 00:15:31,560were very pleased with who are also just as motivated as we are to creating an amazing00:15:37,620 00:15:37,800community experience. Essentially, the idea of VR Con was quite simple: provide a space for00:15:43,500 00:15:43,500individuals to come to where they could see their fellow communities in action; learn what00:15:49,110 00:15:49,110those other communities are doing; and decide for themselves whether or not they wanted to00:15:53,130 00:15:53,130join those communities. Either they be old the community members looking for a new group to00:15:57,960 00:15:57,960join, or new ones that are just looking for a place to fit in for the first time in social VR.00:16:03,540

00:16:03,960Cade Diehm: How many people were here?00:16:05,250

00:16:07,110LILBagel: Our numbers totaled 29,000 people. That's really amazing. The moment you spawn in,00:16:13,590 00:16:13,590you can see everything. Over there we archived a few little, few worlds and experiences that we00:16:19,050 00:16:19,050believe are absolute must-sees, like things like The Devouring, if you're into horror, it's one00:16:24,540 00:16:24,540of the most immersive gaming experiences inside of VR chat. Absolutely do not miss it, you know?00:16:30,240 00:16:30,420Or the laser tag dome, which is basically a laser tag arena created by Serax. Then you've00:16:35,850 00:16:36,060got that pink dome right there. The pink dome is where we had our keynote speakers and our TED00:16:41,070 00:16:41,070Talks and all that stuff, basically, those kind of style of, of talks. The blue dome that houses00:16:47,460 00:16:47,460the portals that goes to our stage. Our stage is very lovely. A lot of memories were there. We00:16:52,380 00:16:52,380had live concerts there during the event, as well as we hosted live DJs as well. And, you00:16:58,890 00:16:58,890have the cyan dome right there, which is the main coup de gras, so to say. It is the main00:17:06,990 00:17:06,990centerpiece, the community dome. So, the community dome is the entire reason why we did00:17:13,860 00:17:13,890VR Con in the first place, and inside there you have six to eight plus communities that are on00:17:20,100 00:17:20,100display there for people to browse at their leisure. But now that people know about us, I00:17:25,440 00:17:25,440think we're going to experience much, much more in terms of the communities that we see there00:17:31,860 00:17:31,890and hopefully more variety. We can go over to the community dome now.00:17:35,880

00:17:35,880Cade Diehm: Take us there to see something. Yeah, please. Yeah.00:17:38,160

00:17:38,160LILBagel: Let's go to the community down, yeah.00:17:39,600

00:17:52,290Cade Diehm: This space is unbelievable. The architecture, also all of the booths here, it's00:18:01,110 00:18:01,110a real testament to the to the community aspect of the, of this festival.00:18:05,070

00:18:05,160LILBagel: The focus was to give the community an internal voice that it can use to communicate to00:18:10,830 00:18:10,830one another, something you can visit, that you can look at. And like, "Wow, this looks like a00:18:16,650 00:18:16,650community that's for me." Each booth in here was individually customized by each community.00:18:22,590 00:18:22,980Basically, all we did was send out booths that were prefabricated, allow them to customize00:18:28,050 00:18:28,050them, and then submit them and we put them in the world. So they, they made their own booths.00:18:34,770 00:18:34,860Some of them are more hybrid customized than others.00:18:37,650

00:18:38,190Cade Diehm: This is amazing. Yeah, I can see everything from like, VR nightclubs, like00:18:43,260 00:18:43,260Shelter, and VR C-car community over here. There's an avatar world. It's it's super00:18:50,700 00:18:50,700vibrant, right? Like, it's every interest that you can think of, right?00:18:53,670

00:18:53,670LILBagel: Exactly.00:18:53,910

00:18:53,940Cade Diehm: There's like a community group here.00:18:55,860

00:18:56,400LILBagel: Right? You know, a lot of people are, you know, they asked for the directory of, you00:19:01,140 00:19:01,140know, where they should start in terms of communities, I tell them, you know, "hey, just00:19:04,620 00:19:04,620go to the VR Con 2020 world," because these communities, they're the future community00:19:08,940 00:19:08,940leaders that are changing the face of social VR.00:19:11,100

00:19:11,610Cade Diehm: What I love the most about this, too, is it's like infrastructure that begets00:19:15,150 00:19:15,150infrastructure. So this piece of infrastructure here is like a hub world, if you like or a space00:19:20,790 00:19:20,790that showcases the infrastructure. But it's not just that a VR car community or the nightclub00:19:25,770 00:19:25,770community is just going into a nightclub actually building all of this infrastructure00:19:29,550 00:19:29,550themselves. They're building the extension of the platform itself.00:19:33,150

00:19:33,540LILBagel: Because these spaces remain open for people to visit on their own time, it also00:19:38,730 00:19:38,880freezes that community in time at that point. So it'll give you that...00:19:43,650

00:19:43,650Cade Diehm: Yeah, that's beautiful.00:19:44,640

00:19:44,820LILBagel: ...little bit of historical context of where they were, and where they are now. And00:19:49,980 00:19:49,980this doesn't really go away. So it's almost like preserved, almost, in virtual...00:19:57,420

00:19:57,420Cade Diehm: Like a time capsule.00:19:58,110

00:19:58,950LILBagel: Precisely. Yeah, this is the booth. And you can see here we have group photos of the00:20:08,580 00:20:08,580Sly Fest 2020. Here's me. And there's, there's a bunch of people I can, I can identify in this00:20:14,970 00:20:14,970photo, this was such a magical night. That Sly right there, this guy in the pink hoodie. So00:20:20,640 00:20:20,640that is the guy that actually you know, the festival is named after. The map that we were00:20:27,000 00:20:27,000going to was created, was in cooperation with Sly was also created by Mochi, which is right00:20:33,180 00:20:33,180here. They are fantastically talented and you're about to see why we think so.00:20:39,720 00:20:48,690Sly fest is the largest music festival that I know of. I got some pretty good artists00:20:55,290 00:20:55,290involved. Very big highlights. And it was just it was such a good, it's just such a good00:21:03,300 00:21:03,300moment. And there's people crying is very emotional. During the end, it was just it felt00:21:08,610 00:21:08,610like, you know, at the end of it all, we were very, very tight knit and in our joint interests00:21:15,660 00:21:15,660in VR and what we do here. So without further ado, I can actually show you the stage. If00:21:22,440 00:21:22,440you're photosensitive this is your warning to not look at the stage. So, photo sensitivity00:21:30,030 00:21:30,030warning, if anyone is, is that way. So, this is a directory right here, if I click on one of the00:21:40,650 00:21:40,650images right here, it'll boot up any of the artists that played and it will play their whole00:21:45,840 00:21:45,840sets. So if you want to come out here and Sly Fest and enjoy SlyFest for yourself with all the00:21:49,920 00:21:49,920artists that we had participate, you can just go straight through the playlist and have your own00:21:54,750 00:21:54,750festival if you want. I've already hit a button, so as we go through here, we'll see the stage00:22:00,930 00:22:00,930and it lightened up with all of the graphics.00:22:02,850 00:22:11,610But this was our life for three days, was in this world, just just partying the entire time.00:22:18,600 00:22:19,620So, when people wonder what there is to do in VR chat, well, here you go. Social VR has a lot of00:22:27,960 00:22:27,960things going for it right now and partying is definitely one of them. What Sly Fest did though00:22:33,870 00:22:33,870was set a standard of systems that should be used, and future clubs afterwards. Now the tech00:22:41,760 00:22:41,760that made Sly Fest so good and run so well, because it was featured in Sly Fest, it00:22:46,740 00:22:46,740popularized it very quickly. And soon, it created that standard VRCDN is an RTMP service00:22:54,690 00:22:55,470that allows us to stream basically with zero latency inside a VR chat. Meaning that if you00:23:02,280 00:23:02,280are a DJ, you can set up at the very top of that DJ booth and you can DJ in real life; everyone00:23:08,790 00:23:08,790else is hearing in real time, so it allows us to do real time DJ events.00:23:14,400

00:23:15,780Cade Diehm: Again, it's a community response, right? Like a community responds to the00:23:18,840 00:23:18,960limitations of the of the infrastructure.00:23:21,090

00:23:21,900LILBagel: Well, we make our own infrastructure with VRCDN, for instance, that's outside of VR00:23:25,920 00:23:25,920chats influence. Not only do you get zero latency, but I told you that the audio in this00:23:29,820 00:23:29,820world is reactive. These animations that these, the lights and that the shapes are making are00:23:35,040 00:23:35,040not pre-generated meaning that if you're doing a live show, it is changing the lights lots.00:23:41,310

00:23:42,570Cade Diehm: It's a synthesis of every single like... the meeting of create- like a00:23:45,690 00:23:45,690multidisciplinary, multidisciplinary space, right like...00:23:48,180 00:23:48,420Exactly.00:23:49,110 00:23:49,620...where everybody has something to contribute, whether it's a developer who's building the tech00:23:54,780 00:23:54,780for it, or whether it's a visual artists doing the reactive visuals. Everybody or the musician00:24:00,990 00:24:00,990themselves or even just a participant who expresses themselves through that avatar, it's00:24:04,920 00:24:04,950all, it's all far more symbiotic than then it would be outside necessarily.00:24:10,080

00:24:10,980LILBagel: A lot of very small systems but creating a complicated community culture and00:24:16,980 00:24:17,160incredible commerce and all kinds of things, yeah. I get to wake up every morning and see all00:24:25,920 00:24:25,920the Excel documents that eventually end up in things like this. So...00:24:29,670

00:24:33,810Cade Diehm: This guide's just like lost it, lost it00:24:35,700

00:24:35,700LILBagel: I've vibin'. What do you want me to do?00:24:39,180

00:25:43,560LILBagel: Alright, we gotta go, we gotta go before we get lost in this life, gonna be stuck00:25:50,160 00:25:50,160here for another three days. Alright, let's go.00:25:55,560

00:26:44,970Cade Diehm: Like, look at you, you're lying down in VR. Are you actually lying down in real life00:26:48,600 00:26:48,600as well?00:26:49,080

00:26:49,260LILBagel: Yeah, I'm lying down in real life, I actually have a bag chair that's similar to this00:26:53,370 00:26:53,370right now that I'm laying down on right now.00:26:54,720

00:26:57,510Cade Diehm: And you're someone who has come through the pandemic and come out the other side00:27:00,720 00:27:01,500with, with a sense of community, which I think you probably agree is much stronger than it was00:27:10,110 00:27:10,110going into the into the pandemic, whereas a lot of people might have struggled. I think00:27:16,890 00:27:16,920obviously, VR plays a major role in that for you. And umm, as we begin to maybe come out the00:27:23,910 00:27:23,910other side, maybe, what are your hopes for the future?00:27:27,630

00:27:27,750LILBagel: My love for community started long, long ago, when I was like..00:27:32,640

00:27:32,640Cade Diehm: I didn't mean to imply otherwise.00:27:33,780

00:27:33,810LILBagel: Oh, yeah. When, when I was 14, and I saw like the first YouTubers coming up, and I00:27:39,360 00:27:39,360saw the communities that grew around them like SeaNanners, and all of them.00:27:42,510

00:27:42,510Cade Diehm: Yeah.00:27:42,570

00:27:42,990LILBagel: I saw that amazing communities that I grew around the Augs cast and all the the00:27:49,320 00:27:49,350Mindcrack guys and all kinds of stuff. And seeing those communities grow and thrive really00:27:55,500 00:27:55,500inspired me and seeing like what kind of incredible things that these people could put00:27:59,640 00:27:59,640together. And all they did was, you know, play a game. I always thought to myself how amazing it00:28:05,460 00:28:05,460would be to be in a position where I could do the same. When I first came in. I knew that it00:28:13,080 00:28:13,080was a community that I wanted to be a part of. I didn't have any previous connections with00:28:19,380 00:28:19,380anyone. Came in as just a guy and got accepted into group of people, which is why VR Con has00:28:26,790 00:28:26,790such the message it does. It harks back to my roots. VR Con's message is trying to accomplish00:28:35,400 00:28:35,970what I feel like everyone got in 2018 and trying to keep that alive, and giving us another avenue00:28:44,460 00:28:44,460to stay alive. That ability for somebody to come in to just find that place where they fit in.00:28:49,920 00:28:50,280And hopefully, the same that happened to me happens to them.00:28:54,150

00:29:05,850Cade Diehm: And I think what I like about your work is that you're driven in a sense, not00:29:12,570 00:29:12,570necessarily by the platforms but by the communities. And so, theoretically, should a00:29:18,330 00:29:18,330migration need to occur, you'd be the kind of person who'd be able to successfully help a00:29:22,650 00:29:22,650community migrate from one to the other. I think a lot of people make the mistake of only seeing00:29:27,540 00:29:27,540VR, from its platform perspective, not from a protocol level or from an infrastructure level.00:29:33,180 00:29:33,450And it sounds like what you're saying, If I can paraphrase you, is it the future that you see of00:29:39,000 00:29:39,000social VR and of business VR, if you like, what you see as the future is, as a community leader,00:29:44,910 00:29:46,590those spaces being much more diverse, by necessity of the of the kind of tooling that00:29:54,810 00:29:54,810this is and what it's capable of. Is that, is that right?00:29:57,750

00:29:58,380LILBagel: Yes, and but also so there's a challenge that comes with that, though, it's one00:30:02,550 00:30:02,550of the thing that scares me the most. A smart person would sit here and see what has happened00:30:08,820 00:30:08,820before, when these technological booms are around the corner. Right now, we do not have00:30:16,590 00:30:17,250government bodies that are educated or literate in the technologies that we're using right now.00:30:22,950 00:30:24,030And hands down, that is the biggest threat we have [yet] to face. The community has to00:30:31,410 00:30:31,410understand that regardless of our differences with one another, those entities that are00:30:38,460 00:30:38,460looking at regulation cannot divide us.00:30:41,880

00:30:46,890Cade Diehm: LILBagel, I think we should leave it there because we've been talking for a really00:30:51,870 00:30:51,870long time again, and...00:30:52,890

00:30:53,040LILBagel: Yeah.00:30:53,220

00:30:53,220Cade Diehm: I don't want to take up too much of your time. So thank you for the work that you do00:30:56,280 00:30:56,280as well. Can you please just quickly plug where to find the work that you're doing? We've talked00:31:04,020 00:31:04,020a lot about it here, but like from someone from the outside watching the stream? How can they00:31:08,220 00:31:08,220find you? What's the first step?00:31:09,360

00:31:09,750LILBagel: So essentially, you can find me on Twitter at @LILBagelVR. You can also find me, I00:31:20,370 00:31:20,370was gonna say on on Twitch, but I don't stream much, LILBagel underscore, I'm going to plug it00:31:24,780 00:31:24,780anyways. I don't know, by the time this comes out, I might be streaming00:31:28,800 00:31:28,800again. Who knows. And then in VR chat, of course, you can find me, my name LILBagel. And I00:31:35,910 00:31:35,910plug myself here because I'm more than willing to meet new people and see their perspectives on00:31:42,150 00:31:42,150what's going on. And as long as it keeps going the way it's going. I think we're gonna get00:31:46,140 00:31:46,140where we're going just fine.00:31:47,250

00:31:49,170Cade Diehm: Thank you for taking us through these community spaces and this beautiful00:31:52,920 00:31:52,920aquarium. Thank you Lightly for co-producing this with me. And thank you for watching the00:31:59,340 00:31:59,340stream. And best of luck, with VR Con and all of the other projects. Really, really looking00:32:05,910 00:32:05,910forward to spending time there.00:32:07,140

00:32:08,610LILBagel: Yeah, thank you guys for having me. It's been a lot of fun.00:32:10,860